I need to get in sync.

[JAP]

Hello,
I am kind of new to the super8 world. I have shot it but never for profesional results. I am going to shoot a feature with sync sound. I am looking for a camera that can sync. I don't want to buy from pro8.
I'v looked into the beaulieu 4008's I guess they can sync from a 60hz pulse or somehting. Does anyone know how well this works and what can gennerate the pulse. woud it need to come from a nagra or something. I'd rather not need to run a cable.
I have head that some of the cannon and nikon cameras can sync but havn't seen any listed anywhere.
I guess what i am looking for is a good camera with a crystal sync greneraton built in. Sound will be recorded on a mini disk if I cant get a nagra. It will be edited on an avid or final cut system.
Any advice would be great.

Thanks
Joe

[This message has been edited by JAP (edited February 16, 2001).]

[rollemfilm]

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[#Pedro]

JAP:
The 4008 has a drive connection to a Pilot (NOT PULSE) tone generator, which creates a 60 Hz pilot tone whith its frequency varying according to the speed variations of the camera. This tone is recorded on a separate track of the tape (cable required). Afterwards, when transfering the sound back to the stripe of the ready film, the projector can control the speed of the tape with a synchronizer unit. This unit compares the framerate of the projector and the frequency of the pilot tone and regulates the tape?s speed in order to get into sync.
For editing it?s easyer to work with the pulse method, which means, that the signal from the camera?s flash socket is transformed into 1000 Hz beeps, one per frame, which are recorded on a separate track. Afterwards you can combine each beep which each frame in order to sync it during editing. The transfer back to the film stripe works in the same way as with the pilot tone, the sync unit compares the projector?s framerate and the tapes "beeprate" and regulates the tape?s speed.
To work without cable between camera and recorder, you need a camera with a crystal speed control and a tape recorder with a crystal speed control. Both will always run at the same speed, as it?s crystal controlled. Conventional editing is difficult with this system, as you havn?t any reference on the tape, at what moments the camera was running. Therefore you must use a clapboard. For video transfer and digital editing, this is the only good method, but the result will be (only) a video tape and not a real film.
If you use the pulse syncronization you could use a radio transmitter to record the pulses wihtout any wire, or a small recorder like the Sony D6C to carry with you.
Pedro

[pcg]

You may also want to read the FAQ section on The Film Group web site (their URL is posted on numerous S8 sites).

They sell crystal devices & modify numerous cameras to sync sound w/ action. A good location to follow up on Pedro's comments.

/Pat

[mattias]

you have no experience shooting "professional" super-8 and now you're using it for a feature? sorry to sound negative, but good luck. and as a final piece of advice: go 16!

[Alex]

Mattias, about your "go 16mm" advice.

I've heard numerous lucid reasons for going 16mm...including it's no more expensive than Super-8mm.

Yet I still a find a certain combination of Super-8 features to be appealing.

Pre-loaded film....everytime I get in a discussion and I bring this point up...the 16mm people say it isn't a big deal.

How can that be. How can having to load and unload every roll...(imagine if you are doing short ends!) ...not be a chore that slows down the shoot and requires more crew AND your trust that they are both loading the camera correctly and handling the film to the strictest guidelines.

ALL 16mm camera components weigh more and
require more power comsumption...again...more crew people needed to lug the heavier components around.

Most 16mm cameras are loud....and to blimp them successfully, requires either the use of ultra-expensive cameras or again...heavy and bulky noise padding acoutrements.

Again, we're talking the low-budget filmmaker who wants to get a lot done in short amount of time.

In my opinion, the three elements that lend themselves to use 16mm are the following...a potentially prettier picture and better registration......a moveable eye-piece....and the cost of transfer is the same for either 16mm or Super-8.

These three reasons are quite compelling...

....But should I get a script that will be shot outdoors, or if it is indoors but more about the acting and less about the indoor set...., or should I need to steal locations quickly...

I wouldn't hesitate to give it a whirl in Super-8.

Perhaps for a beginner....using 16mm means you are forcing yourself to rely on others with experience...coupled with 16mm you have a bigger bullseye in front of you...it's not bad advice...yet Super-8 for film to video projects can either work as the whole potato or as a great second unit complement.

-Alex


[This message has been edited by Alex (edited February 19, 2001).]

[mattias]

alex, i agree with you if we're talking experimenting and making very short films, or if you're a super 8 expert and can and want to do everything yourself. if you have enough time and money to make a more advanced short or a feature however, i think you should definately consider 16. the main reason is that there are labs, rental firms, camera repair shops and more virtually everywhere in comparison. they will save you plenty of headaches and unecessary expenses. this is true even on a very small budget actually. i've made several 5-10 minute shorts on 16mm, using only professional equipment and services, and have been able to get to a fully timed release print with sound for around $2000, or to a video release for under $1000.

(i've made several short experimental and documentary films on super 8 for virtually nothing as well, mind you) :-)

[Alex]

Over the years I've noticed a certain "disdain" toward the low-budget student in these types of rental environments you mention.

I've been given the wrong magazine for an eclair camera....one guy knew it was wrong...said it was wrong...another guy said it was right, and rented it to me.

I ended up with 100 feet of unuseable 16mm film on my back-up magazine.

(it was a wedding shot with 6 cameras: 3 video cameras, 2 super-8, and one 16mm...there wasn't time to load a second magazine...so the bad film was film that otherwise would not have been shot at all, a small consolation)

I've seen cameras that had light leaks....rented to the low budget guy.

Generally, I don't believe it is in the best interest of a high-end camera place to EVER rent the good stuff to a student with a no budgeet production...

There is a higher degree possibility of the equipment being mishandled....can you see the camera house renting that same gear to a Coppola or Spielberg or some high-end commercial director.

Most houses would rather hold on to the extra stuff they value as emergency back-up rather than risk it on a low-budget project.

Unless you have a legitimate camera crew and the camera guys have AC'd around town and are known by the camera rental places....I wouldn't have faith in getting anything other than scraps.

The idea behind Super-8 is similar to the idea of DV.

You own your own stuff and know how to use it and take care of it...and if it breaks down, you either have a spare or borrow a friends camera.

-Alex